tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post2908310945827827604..comments2023-07-11T08:11:25.508-07:00Comments on Coursera Fantasy: Creation, Curation... and the Virtual Trash CanLaura Gibbshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-7182414099884187792012-08-16T11:12:52.809-07:002012-08-16T11:12:52.809-07:00I was thinking they could at least number the anon...I was thinking they could at least number the anonymous people, so at least which could tell which anonymous was which, ha ha. :-)Laura Gibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-16433100365127084462012-08-16T11:09:07.141-07:002012-08-16T11:09:07.141-07:00I didn't mean 'attract' in that way. I...I didn't mean 'attract' in that way. I mean it's a pity that they don't get to read some great points you made in your posts.<br /><br />Regarding the 'anonymous' comments, I give up. I got confused more times than I could count since I couldn't tell who replied who.Lisa Santika Onggridhttp://www.mirroredworld.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-6316460835019255712012-08-16T06:35:31.216-07:002012-08-16T06:35:31.216-07:00Lisa, there are thousands of people in this class,...Lisa, there are thousands of people in this class, and hundreds of people at the discussion board. Trying to please everybody is impossible - I'm not trying to attract people to my posts (what would be the point of that? this is not a high school popularity contest). I'm trying to share useful information and to gather useful information from others, that's all. I'm probably not going to participate much more at the discussion boards; more and more people are posting anonymously, which makes it impossible to have any kind of real conversation, especially when five or six people named "anonymous" are sharing comments and you cannot even tell one person from another.Laura Gibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-18117782159750914022012-08-15T23:48:33.319-07:002012-08-15T23:48:33.319-07:00The problem with the forum is that I can't cho...The problem with the forum is that I can't choose to see only the thread I followed or participated in, so I can't keep track of my discussion if I don't take the time to note the discussion title. Regarding your concern with students' participation, you might want to check this site: wallwisher.com-it's an online corkboard and is quite useful for group project or small to medium discussion.<br /><br />One more thing, Laura, and please don't get offended. I think you rant about so many things because you run online classes yourself. Not all teachers teach like you, and they bring their attitudes and views to their online class. You keep on comparing the class to yours, and that keep some people away from your posts, even if you did it with good intentions.Lisa Santika Onggridhttp://www.mirroredworld.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-13339910951203216582012-08-15T09:26:45.362-07:002012-08-15T09:26:45.362-07:00Virtual cow tipping: ha!!! You gave me my first la...Virtual cow tipping: ha!!! You gave me my first laugh-out-loud for the day, Vanessa - thank you! I definitely need to look at Udemity - for all that I have been disappointed in this Coursera course, what a dramatic change this is from when I first started teaching online ten years ago and I felt alone, and by that I mean, really and totally and completely alone. Now with all these experiments going on in public places (even if they are not "open" in the sense that I understand open), surely we will start making real progress. I am going to enjoy looking around after I finish this Coursera MOOC to see what I want to try next! Laura Gibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-15935314747276439672012-08-15T09:04:18.953-07:002012-08-15T09:04:18.953-07:00You might want to give Lisa's Program for Onli...You might want to give Lisa's <a href="http://pedagogyfirst.org/wppf/" rel="nofollow">Program for Online Teaching</a> a look and a spin around the dance floor. She calls it SMOOC (small to medium open online course). <br /><br />Coursera is not doing right by participating professors either, not enough training / orientation / support for them. You are right, some are going to be lost to this kind of online teaching. The commercial ed-biz crowd don't get what truly open is ~ and would not like it if they did because it means relinquishing top down, hierarchical control. Or maybe they do and still think they can shape it to their purposes, keep everything in house. A connectivist mooc or so back, someone called that model the "toxic tree house."<br /><br />Have you tried Udemity? Margaret Soltan (University Diaries) is very enthusiastic about teaching in it and reports student enthusiasm.<br /><br />I find myself thinking, hey let's flip the xMOOC (virtual cow tipping?). MOOC MOOC, interesting (if not for the reason envisioned by organizers) but chaotic even for a mooc. Quite a contrast, dizzying but informative to follow both at the the same time. Vanessa Vailehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647639725252430851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-8129044143910566992012-08-14T06:29:24.231-07:002012-08-14T06:29:24.231-07:00Isn't Lisa Lane awesome? She is a real Interne...Isn't Lisa Lane awesome? She is a real Internet hero of mine. In a very bad Blackboard MOOC which I participated in back in May, the single best class discussion was an extended discussion that took place at her BLOG, since the discussion space in the class itself was just a nightmare (Blackboard's Course Sites discussion board was no better than at Coursera), in which the instructor showed up, programmers from Blackboard - all because Lisa's blog was an open space that people could share and use for actual communication... unlike the tools made available to use by Blackboard.<br /><br />The variability in the Coursera courses is something that worries me, too - reading through the contract they have with Michigan, it is pretty clear that they envision a basically "instructionless" model. So, if a professor wants to be involved, that's fine, that's great - but it is not an expected element in their course design model. My guess is that some of these professors have a huge curiosity about how all this works and might participate with much eagerness the first time around... but are they going to be back again with that same eagerness and enthusiasm the second time or the third time or the nth time? I don't think so. The Coursera contract definitely envisions the course being offered multiple times, and they don't really have any provision in there except for the students basically to teach themselves, as if this were a connectivist course... but they have not given us any of the tools or the space we can use in order to connect. The more I ponder it, the more glum I become.Laura Gibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-37204628906611674562012-08-13T22:10:43.121-07:002012-08-13T22:10:43.121-07:00I share your frustrations too. The level of frustr...I share your frustrations too. The level of frustration is palpable, the white noise deafening. I hope it does not completely suffocate the remarkable enthusiasm it started with. I came across a reference of 5,000 for the course. Whether 5, 10 or 20+ thousand, most do not participate in the forum. I haven't paid enough attention to number of visits to hazard any guesses there.<br /> <br />As a closed rather than open system, Coursera probably won't make use of the many open resources. There also seems to more administrative variation from one to another too. A recent sociology course changed its grading scale from 1-3 to 1-5 because of student complaints. I registered in Al Fireis' Modern Poetry class in September. Fireis' course, much larger, sent out pre-course reading suggestions and all his web page links, has a course twitter account and is already posting to it. Follow through remains to be seen, but I take all this as a good sign.<br /><br />I find myself skimming email notices and spending more time with the Facebook group, diverse, congenial, smart and less unwieldy. The Google+ circle sounds fascinating judging from your comments and the few blog links I've seen. Participant blogs are another feature I miss. Although far too many to follow all, there are always gems in every course to save and cherish. That, and the new connections from them, is the real takeaway from a mooc.<br /><br />fyi Lisa Lane just posted this (pdf) <a href="http://aabri.com/manuscripts/11908.pdf" rel="nofollow">article comparing 10 online teaching models</a> for her POTcert course, Vanessa Vailehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04647639725252430851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-36247802437212516522012-08-13T10:36:33.456-07:002012-08-13T10:36:33.456-07:00Zotero is SUCH a powerful tool. I am really just a...Zotero is SUCH a powerful tool. I am really just a neophyte, but even for the simple way in which I use it (managing my giant GoogleBooks library), it is so powerful and useful! They have been offering mini-courses on Zotero through the library at my school (Univ. of Oklahoma), and I was really glad to see that. I always figure the best way to convert faculty members to the online world is to give them a tool that totally saves them time! :-)Laura Gibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-68022042661083362072012-08-13T10:32:46.701-07:002012-08-13T10:32:46.701-07:00I never knew about Zotero's profile pages. I h...I never knew about Zotero's profile pages. I haven't really used it since I was a college librarian years ago, but am getting back in the swing of it now.<br /><br />I agree that the course should be offering starting places for research, any lecturer would in real life so why not online, where it is easier for people to follow links and the like.Fencehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04478271943214944729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-1170862955906637072012-08-12T14:13:47.219-07:002012-08-12T14:13:47.219-07:00Dominik, that MOOC looks really fascinating. I am ...Dominik, that MOOC looks really fascinating. I am going to share that over at Google+ where there has been so much good discussion of MOOCs and sharing of different MOOC opportunities (are you at Google+?)... it is so exciting to see the many different ways people are doing the MOOCs. I picked this Coursera MOOC to do, and promised myself to complete the whole course... but I am looking forward to when this course is over and I can find another one to try; I am sure they will get better and better, too, over time as people learn from one another. <br /><br />And yes, absolutely, I am not writing in defense of traditional practices (it was a revelation for me when I arrived at my current school and was still teaching in a classroom to stand in the hallway and watch students coming out of a big lecture hall, throwing their papers into the big trash can by the outside door as soon as they had flipped to the back page to see the grade...). Instead, what I sadly see is that this Coursera MOOC seems to be taking some of the very bad practices of traditional university education and reproducing those practices (like having students write for the trash can), just on a more massive scale. <br /><br />I feel badly for the students who I really do think deserve better in this go-round, so I am not so willing to cut Coursera as much slack as you are in their failure to have learned from the many excellent online learning networks that already do exist... but overall, I share your optimism for sure. Bring on Coursera v.2!Laura Gibbshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994025992373244815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1619974859742853534.post-43299269319501209902012-08-12T14:03:27.345-07:002012-08-12T14:03:27.345-07:00I absolutely agree with this vision of MOOCs and t...I absolutely agree with this vision of MOOCs and the criticism of the Coursera system.<br /><br />I am myself involved in the creation of a MOOC that will try to combine creation with curation using some of the open tools you mention on http://load2learn.org.uk/training/onlinecourse<br /><br />However, I don't think it's nearly as dire, as you make it out. Traditional universities don't treat even PhD theses with much more respect than this course does its 320 word micro essays. And the forums do provide a basic form of self-organization. Not one that scales all that well, but one none the less.<br /><br />I think the tools can also grow out of such dissatisfaction and then their impact can be more powerful than if they were served up from the beginning.Dominik Lukešhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03071876778771965740noreply@blogger.com